Katie’s Revenge? Or Man Revenge
If you pay attention to the news like a man does — and I know you do because you’re a man, then you’ve heard about the case of poor Anthony Stockelman.
Stockelman is serving a life sentence in Indiana, America for the molestation and murder of a 10 year old girl.
I can only imagine what would have become of him in a prison of women. He probably would have been taught how to knit or how to believe in Tantric yoga or some other bullshit where women just run their fucking mouths for hours on end and then give themselves a medal when they’re done. Stockelman was in a man’s prison though, so he was beaten and tattooed across the forehead with the words KATIE’S REVENGE.
It’s the kind of thing that makes you proud to be a man.
Women have no concept of justice; either making it or dispensing it. Have you ever seen the show Super Nanny? Not one single mother on that show knows what the fuck she’s doing and that is the standard fare when it comes to the household.
Let me ask you a question. Do you let the guy who builds your house decorate it? That burly man, man with the tool belt and the man ass crack? Do you let him or someone who looks like him tidy up after a party? Fucking no. Just because he built the house doesn’t mean he knows shit about cleaning or developing it. Same goes for women and children.
“But, Dick! On those shows it’s always the father not spending enough time at home.”
That’s true. I’m not going to argue with anyone who says men are better than women and that definitely says that. It is the man’s fault the little bastards are out of control. It’s his fault for making money to put food in their bellies instead of teaching them how not to hit. It’s his fault for setting the invaluable example of taking care of man business that makes him too busy to get some children dressed for fucking school. For fuck’s sake.
The point is no woman has ever enacted an appropriate level of justice on anyone who deserved it. It’s like women are missing the organ that tells them when something is cool and when it deserves a rubber-hose beating and forehead tattooing. That gland is either called the brain or the penis. I’m not sure which is funnier.
Whatever happened to that woman who molested all those 13-year-old boys? Debra Lefave? Did she get her forehead tattooed? No because women are cowards.
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October 6th, 2006 at 3:50 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
Actually Son of the suns, I spent 10 years “drinking and whoring” to get three degrees, but thanks for the shout out.
In response to Gwallan-
I would like to say that I appreciate wolfe’s and your point of view, and I’m glad that I’ve had the opportunity to here that view. If I might state it in this manner: Talking about all men as if they were guilty of being rapists simply because of their gender is unfair and hurtful. I cannot help but agree entirely. I think that living in a world where women are taught from the time that they are young to fear men as possible predators is awful for men and women, and that it is important for a real dialogue to take place between men and women at a level beyond fear and name-calling.
Therefore, I also agree that the SCUM Manifesto is demeaning and not useful (like some of the posts on this site). In fact, the SCUM Manifesto is a reverse example of Aristotle’s teachings (. . . “females are weaker and colder in their nature, and we should look upon the female state as being as it were a deformity, though one which occurs in the ordinary course of nature.”) The difference is that Aristotle is revered and taught in high school classrooms.
I don’t believe that “a silly name” like “sugar tits” is grounds for violence against women. That must be miscommunication on our part. I do think that it is a choice to degrade a person using language and a choice to be disrespectful to other individuals because of their gender. I also think it is far too common. I don’t think men like it. I don’t think women like it. Period.
On a personal note, I’m sorry that feminists who you knew did not take your experience seriously. Both the male and female youth who I have worked with over the past 4 years have all been assaulted by men (in terms of those who reported the act). It is difficult for them to discuss the shame that they feel. I imagine that it was incredibly difficult for you “to come out” about your experience as well.
People, men or women, should never be made to feel that they are contriving or scheming when they share such difficult information. I’m sure that you can generalize your experience to the experiences of men and women who have been told that they are exaggerating or making up the acts that happened to them. On this site, I have seen many postings suggesting that some individuals believe that women often lie about being assaulted. I do not think that individuals in a court of law should ever be “guilty before proven innocent,” but I do think we should have respect for and provide support for victims of crimes, yourself included.
October 6th, 2006 at 4:45 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
In response to Abaddon-
Wow, these comments were very helpful to me actually. I found a few things particularly interesting and useful in understanding your point of view a little better.
(1) I’m so astounded actually that you agree with me on this point. The site is misleading. It suggests that men here see things as one-way with women merely causing problems for men, and not actually having any issues of their own (only lying to pretend that they have problems). I think it is encouraging that you believe that “women’s and men’s problems are integrally tied together.” The idea that these issues are tied together (for example, women feeling that they are treated as sex objects and men feeling that they are treated as sex predators) does seem like a pretty simple thought, but I think that it implies that if you care more about CHANGE than BLAME you have to work at a system level to improve both issues, men’s and women’s issues.
That said, there is no reason for me to hate men who focus on creating change in men’s issues, and likewise I do not hate women who focus on creating change in women’s issues. It is the nature of the beast to want to improve one’s own lot. I do have a problem with women and men thwarting each other’s goals and stomping on each other in the process of trying to better themselves.
One thing I am learning is that men on this website feel that this is what feminism is doing. I’m open to hearing your views about this, though it is not my current opinion. I am under the opinion that some of the comments on this website seek to encourage men to be hypocrites and do that same thing to women (stomp on them and thwart their rights to education, voting, etc.). I think that improving women’s lot and men’s lot is not accomplished by slinging mud back and forth.
So, why do men on this site sling mud? The only response that I’ve gotten is because they are fed up! I will try not to place too much judgement on that response. I’ve been fed up with some things before also, but ultimately I hope you agree that we all (men and women) have to go above and beyond that.
(2) Thank you for sharing this viewpoint. I think that special interest groups wield financial power when they have statistics. I suspect that due to differences in the reported number of male versus female victims of rape, it is easy to see where the federal funding would likely go. I shouldn’t have implied that women’s groups are helping because women care and men don’t. In addition, I haven’t seen men’s groups organize themselves as well politically as women’s groups (although that is changing, I just saw a public program about divorce that featured a father’s rights group that is gaining power). My point was really that, as wolfe indicates, there is always more heterogeneity within groups than between them. sonyad frequently calls me lopsided (and I certainly have my own biases), but I think that ignoring the work that feminists do in helping men (especially sexual minority men who they have many programs for) is a convenient choice for people who would like to hate all feminists.
(3) This is the saddest statement to me of anything that I’ve read on this site because it hits right at the heart of something very dear to me (as someone who works with children). It makes me really really sad that things are this way. I can hear that it also, appropriately, makes you really angry. I think this is a lose-lose situation.
I am going to make myself vulnerable to criticism by sharing my thoughts on this (and please feel free to challenge me because this is an issue that I would really like to discuss with some thoughtful men): I believe that there is a higher base rate of men committing these sexual acts against children (notice that is not the same as saying that majority or men do these things / it is only a relative comparison across genders). I believe that there are societal patterns that are, in part, responsible for this disparity. I also think that the fear that these thoughts perpetuate in families is not just among women but among men (fathers) alike. Fathers also often prefer female healthcare providers, babysitters, etc. working with their daughters. Lastly, I think that one way to start to create change in these perceptions is for men’s organizations to take a strong stance in protecting children. I would love to see men change the face of this issue. One of my favorite organizations is Dads and Daughters, because it is a group of men who take that stance that they should change cultural messages that devalue their daughters and that they will not be tolerant of anyone who seeks to harm their daughters. In general, we need more images of men who really value chidlren and are involved in children’s lives in healthy ways (not just necessarily their own children), because this is one way to change the stereotype that if a man is too close to a child it must be in a sick way.
October 6th, 2006 at 4:54 pm - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
Awesome. Sunk to a new low. Actually, it is your comments that are the ones that serve no worthy purpose but rather only rendering malfeasance. Not to mention clearly conflicting with site rules.
Comparing Aristotle with Valerie Solanas. I guess it takes a woman.
The man touched on everything from (meta)physics and mathematics through aging, logic, economics to causality and the cosmos. Those little things more than qualify him to be taught in lyceums, don’t you concur? And you see fit to demean him to the level of that nullwit that contributed squat to civilisation throughout its life, quite the contrary. Whose ‘manifesto’ I notice you’ve neither condemned nor argued against, merely dismissed. Her kin’s evil ranges far and wide throughout time and space on this rock.
Attempting intelligent discourse with you is cognitively demeaning and downright embarrassing. And not a negligible threat to one’s sanity.
If you have any decency at all you’ll refrain from continuing to comment any time soon.
If not, then do pardon my indiscretion and cite your degrees. Nothing to do with logic, causality or coherent, comprehensive, linear thought, I presume.
You’re either evil, a dingbat or extraordinarily dim even for a feminist. Perhaps all three.
October 6th, 2006 at 5:01 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
In response to Wolf-
I await your further comments and appreciate your reply. I agree that my experience (in terms of professional experience) is biased in terms of working with children and families from challenging stressful environments. I also agree that when looking at events on an individual basis such as being called “sugar tits” they may not appear singularly harassing to you. However, I think that your definition of harassment may be lacking the context of a world in which there are constant and frequent insults of this kind that have at the least an additive, if not exponential, effect.
October 6th, 2006 at 5:07 pm - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
Brain going numb with pain. How come you don’t drown in the idiocy and non sensical non sequiturs you spew.
October 6th, 2006 at 5:15 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
Sonyad-
As usual, thank you for your delightful insightful and INTELLIGENT remarks! You’ll be sad to hear that I’m heading out, but I’ll be sure to check in later :>
Goodnight!
October 7th, 2006 at 4:40 am - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
Not at all.
October 7th, 2006 at 8:32 am - IP Man-Hash: ca10924525149
From the male perspective it has little to do with simply talking about men as guilty of anything or teaching girls to fear men. In the UK a woman can have a couple of drinks, initiate sex, claim to have been raped and the target of her accusation then must prove his innocence. THIS IS THE REALITY FOR MEN. No amount of talking to feminists or women will resolve these things. We’ve listened for decades. We’ve not been allowed to respond. Feminists have been given an inch and taken a light year. Their lies and hyperbole have been enshrined in laws that genuinely breach the human rights of men.
Also Hitler was an absolute saint and Ghandi a homicidal maniac. Strangely I don’t recall Aristotle advocating genocide. Maybe you’re thinking of Achilles Aristotle from the fish and chip shop down the street. Oh hang on. It’s the Turks he doesn’t like.
By equating Aristotle with Solanos I’m afraid you risk losing all respect.
No, it would be a misreading on YOUR part. I suspect everybody else here knows precisely what I mean. Try reading it again.
You don’t get it do you? You jump up and down about a bit of name calling while men who are savagely mutilated are laughed at.
In Australia we have a multi million dollar advertising campaign entitled “Australia Says NO to Violence Against Women” - notwithstanding statistics showing men to be the victims of 85% of all violence. You can see this ad bracketed between one that depicts a man being belted over the head with a tyre iron accompanied by three stooges sound effects and another showing a bloke being hit in the groin and then laughed at by all and sundry while writhing on the ground in agony.
Answer me honestly. If I was to perform an non-consensual mastectomy on yourself would I be the recipient of standing ovations? Would you be the object of global mirth?
I only mention my experience in the context of feminist ideological reaction. Feminism is not, as you try to suggest, at all interested in men as victims. Many of them cheer loudly when men are victimised. And many of them are cynical enough to cheer when women are victimised as it gives them more grist for their “men are evil” mill.
I distinguish between false allegations and real assualts. The vast majority of real physical and sexual assualts are not reported. I do believe that the majority of those actually alleged to police and, more particularly, Family Courts are false. US lawyers now say that not encouraging a divorcing woman to claim abuse is tantamount to malpractice. The truth of those allegations is irrellevant(mind you what can you expect from folk who make their living from lying). Every study of rape reports to police in recent years is indicating that over 50% of those reports are false. On New Zealand’s South Island last year the rate of PROVEN false rape allegations was 80%!
Read this article and explain to us how rape shield laws, feminist advocacy and jurisprudence as well as an ingrained attitude of “always believe the woman” isn’t destroying the lives of innocent men.
Man freed but serial rape accuser remains anonymous
How can a man trust any woman he meets or, for that matter, any woman at all? Women have been handed a loaded gun and a license to use it indisciminately and, worse, anonymously.
Unfortunately the burden of proof in rape trials is being reversed in more and more constituencies every year. The UK has done it. Several Australian states have followed suit. Feminists want the same thing in the US. Meanwhile the question of male consent isn’t on any radars at all.
Women are likely responsible for more than a third of child sexual abuse. Sexual assualt support services in my area operate on this presumption. 25% of their clients are male. Some of the staff who deal with large numbers of prisoners will tell you that 75% of men convicted of rape were molested by women in their childhood(this is also reflected in the Divorce and Fatherhood Statistics I cited earlier). There are well documented cycles of victimisation and subsequent offending. It is disingenuous to deny womens’ complicity in this cycle.
Women are also responsible for the large majority of physical abuse of children(in actual fact children are safer with men).
Feminism’s current practice is to obscure womens’ offending and highlight that of men. Those cycles will not be broken while their influence remains.
I’m rather more interested in when Concerned studied. I already have a fair idea of the disciplines involved.
October 7th, 2006 at 9:56 am - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
If you’re thinking what I’ve in mind, gwallan, the word disciplines is grossly overrating.
October 7th, 2006 at 9:58 am - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
Wow. Sublimely full of shit. Drop the conspicuously fancy wording. You’re unbecoming it.
October 7th, 2006 at 11:03 am - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
Thanks for your reponse, Gwallan.
(1) I don’t think that ther is any useful response to your comment that dialogue between genders is not helpful. Clearly you have another understanding of what would improve “man’s plight” in the face of the “horrors of feminism.” I encourage you to share that point of view.
(2) You’re right. I had not read any of the SCUM Manifesto, except for the excerpts being posted here. I see now that it advocates “gendercide.” I think better examples of historical “gendercide” (rather than quoting Aristotle) are advocates of gender selected abortions and female infanticide as well as the centuries of witch hunts in Europe and Africa. The point is that there are extremists in either camp, and that I strongly disagree with that approach to solving problems.
(3)Frankly, I do not personally laugh at men who are mutilated. Do you? I do not enjoy men’s/boys pain. I understand that because you have read the SCUM Manifesto and some other hatred-filled works you may believe that many feminists would enjoy to see men suffer, and maybe they would. I equate those women to men who enjoy seeing women suffer (for example, the many men who enjoy “rape porn” widely available online). I will add, in reference to your information about the number of men who are victims of violence, that the source of violence against both men and women is largely men. This means that maybe the issue of greater importance even than “violence against women” is “violence perpetrated by men,” either way I’m sure that you are not happy about fact.
(4)Looking at the American Bar Association reports on domestic violence and divorce did not suggest to me that lawers are expected to ENCOURAGE report of domestic violence. Feel free to let me know if I’m wrong, but they actually instead insist that domestic violence be assessed for along with many other possibly important issues (mental health, substance use, etc.). I believe that it is important to assess all of these areas to ensure that decisions are made in the best interest of children (in custody cases).
(5)I did a “quick and dirty” review of “false allegation” literature in rape. It appears that this is a vague term which can mean two things (1) a rape claim that is unproven and lacks adequate evidence or (2) a rape claim that is proven false/deceitful through adequate evidence. There is some evidence that cases that fall into the second category are due to (1)providing an alibit, (2) seeking revenge, and (3)an impulsive effort to cope with a stressful situation. Also, there is evidence that something called “Statement Validity Analysis” is useful in determining whether or not an allegation is in fact true. In general, there was no where in the empirical literature where your “80%” was demonstrated. There was percentages I’ve seen in law journals today ranged from 1.6 to 40% depending on the sample.
(6)I would not dispute (AT ALL) that it is inappropriate to ALWAYS believe anyone because of their gender.
(7)Currenltly statistics indicate that (1) child victimizers are more likely than individuals who assault adults to have been physically or sexualy abused as children (you’re right about that), however the majority do NOT report a history of such abuse (bureay of justice stats), (2) girls are 3 times more likely to be sexually abused than boys (NIS stats) (3)all but 3% of offenders who commit violent crimes against children were male (bureau of justice statistics).
(8) I’d be interested to hear what you all think I do, and why you think it is relevant. What do you do? What did you study?
October 7th, 2006 at 5:39 pm - IP Man-Hash: 3b6ac04b422db
I haven’t had much time to stay in this discussion much, but let me respond to a few things.
On the wage gap: In the 60’s, women earned 59% of the income men did, now it is 78%. Obviously improving but not equitable. A lot of this gap comes from the traditional roles women have been pressured to follow and the huge head-start us men have had in the workplace. Heck, women couldn’t even vote until 1920 (I won’t respond to the idea on this website that they shouldn’t have that right). I work in a male-dominated technology industry and I am happy to see more women in the workplace. My experience has been that the women I have worked with contribute equally to the men. In general, I am happy to see any American men/women encouraged to study sciences/math since our nation is falling so far behind.
On women in Congress: I do not believe being in Congress is the pinnacle of success in our country and I agree that they seem quite ineffective sometimes. But the small number of women in Congress and miniscule number as CEO’s (who hold a lot of power in our business-consolidating free-market economy) show the power-structure of our country is dominated by men.
On female intellegence: Deary et al. (2002) found the difference in mean IQ’s between men and women was not statistically significant, but did find more variance among the men than the women (which some of you have mentioned). I don’t see evidence here to show that men are smarter than women. I do think socialization plays a major role in what career direction women and men choose and this explains why there are so few women in mathematical fields.
On only berating angry men: I happen to be posting on a site where some members say hateful things towards women, so I am responding to those. I am against any hateful rhetoric perpetrated by ANYONE. I appreciate those of you that have taken the time to have an intelligent discussion, but will ignore anyone who calls me a “mangina” or Concerned a “cunt”.
On this site: While this and a number of other discussions I’ve read are intellectual, I take issue with a large number of the blog links at the top of the page that don’t represent this, including “Every Women is a Cheating Whore”, “Women are Illiterate” and “Women Would Vote for Hitler”. This last one invoke’s Godwin’s law much more directly than my comments on the dangers of claiming superiority of any particular race/gender.
That being said, thank you for your comments and for those of you who are engaging Concerned and myself in this discussion.
October 7th, 2006 at 6:41 pm - IP Man-Hash: 9a411a51af9ea
Concerned Man, I also agree that social pressures determine growth of penis, vagina, muscles, and broad shoulders.
I also believe electricity can cure AIDS, and make a time machine.
October 7th, 2006 at 6:43 pm - IP Man-Hash: 9a411a51af9ea
Also you are a mangina, and your husband is a cunt. I mean wife. Or is it husband? She gives the orders I sense. Kill the patriarchy!!!!!
October 7th, 2006 at 6:47 pm - IP Man-Hash: eab4c21bb6be5
I can respect the fact that you are a mangina trying to ‘look good’ to your girlfriend. Chances are that becaue of this you may get some head tonight, (which is good because it is the best way for a woman’s mouth to be engaged). But I am rather offended by the way you implied that “Every Women is a Cheating Whoreâ€?, “Women are Illiterateâ€? and “Women Would Vote for Hitlerâ€? were not intellectual. Please, don’t call a spade a spatula (just to be silly).
October 7th, 2006 at 6:58 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
concerned man is not my husband. I’m actually not married, but he sounds like an intelligent guy.
October 7th, 2006 at 7:02 pm - IP Man-Hash: 9a411a51af9ea
I simply can’t fathom why no man has married you yet.
October 7th, 2006 at 7:04 pm - IP Man-Hash: 3b6ac04b422db
Certainly sounds like a spade to me. Those topics sound intellectual to you?
October 7th, 2006 at 7:06 pm - IP Man-Hash: eab4c21bb6be5
My work is done here.
October 7th, 2006 at 7:10 pm - IP Man-Hash: 47282aa9c8980
I’m sure that you are only trying to insult me in some way. Though I’m not sure why not getting married is very insulting. However, I will share that I am not personally interested in marriage. Which, given your avatar diamitik, I would think that you would understand. Anyhow, given that I am not married, I’m heading out. Goodnight children.