Why Do Women Make Shitty Musicians?
This question was sent to me by a reader and I appreciate it:
“Dick, why do women make such shitty musicians?”
I happen to disagree with the question. See, unlike women, men can disagree with things like questions and eye-rolls, even though they’re not technically statements to be disagreed with. It’s because questions and fucking eye-rolls and other bullshits are just like saying the same thing that is being implied. It’s the same.
Women always fuck that up. They think keeping their mouths shut gives them carte blanche to behave however fucking terribly they want.
Women don’t make shitty musicians. That’s like saying McDonald’s makes shitty Italian food. McDonald’s doesn’t even make pizza, what the fuck are you talking about?
Exactly.
Think of the greatest composers in history. That’s easy. You’ve got your Mozart and your Beethoven and your Mothersbaugh, but what about the not-so-greats? You could probably do some digging on the internet and if you were a woman you could convince a man to do some digging on the internet and then talk about the results like you fucking knew all of them already because as a woman you pull that manner of shit all the time. What you’d find in the annals of music is a sausage party so jam packed with men it belongs about a block from the airport.
Women are a fucking travesty to music. Music and women are natural enemies just like women and beer. Women fucking hate people having a good time and they’re outrageous control freaks. That’s also why women hate sex. They’re too busy orgasming to control it like men do, so it makes them bitter and full of spite. That’s also why they hate music. They consider it a form of rape. Ear rape.
Music isn’t like other professions either where a woman will occasionally slip through the cracks and actually be worth a fuck. That’s where I swoop in and charitably dole out a MenAreBetterThanWomen.com’s Honorary Man of the Month Award, while simultaneously man-ignoring all of said woman’s other fuck-ups. ‘Man-ignoring’ is when you behave as if you don’t know something, but you still keep it in your mind to act upon later and don’t throw your life off a fucking cliff like a lemming. Women only have one setting on their ignore switch. It’s either Behave Sensibly For a Few Days or Fucking Invent History as You Go! Fuck it!
Also, women practice too goddamn much to be any good at music. Practice is a silly and womanly thing. It’s just prancing around the sidelines while the real job gets done on the field — the field of music.
Here’s a good question: if women are men are equal, which they’re fucking not, but every fuckwit, idiot women on the planet wants to force feed it to young men halfway between breast and bottle; then why hasn’t there been a female Mozart? Why hasn’t some little girl hopped off her daddy’s lap and started jamming?
It’s because women completely suck at music. I’m sure science will prove exactly why someday — just like it proven women can’t read maps worth a fuck. Until then logic and man reason leads the way:
How many woman Mozarts have there been? None. Fuck you. Women suck at music.
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August 27th, 2006 at 5:53 am - IP Man-Hash: 109bcf0dfd9d2
Susanna Hoffs from teh Bangles? Yeah, I know I included Nina Simone, but the rest I tried to keep recent, as in the last decade. But sure if you want to go back to the 70’s and 80’s, let’s see:
Carly Simons
Lita Ford
Janis Joplin
Olivia Newton John (shut up)
Courtney Love (guitar, vocals)
Martika
Sophie B Hawkins
Stevie Nicks
I’m sure there are many others. You will notice Banarama is not on my list.
August 27th, 2006 at 7:42 am - IP Man-Hash: a72aea8406d27
Thankyou Bob. Saved me the trouble. I think I ranted about creativity and innovation elsewhere.
I think it was Christina Hoff-Summers who said that if women ran the world we’d still be living in grass huts. I’d maintain we’d not have advanced that far.
Bullshit female. Using more words and getting all touchy-feely does not make one a better communicator. I suspect you are allowing your own misguided gender solidarity to interfere with your judgement.
Proof positive that women only need ten percent of men’s talent to gain recognition.
I’d have Mary Shelley up there however.
Your list of female musicians inhabit a few decades out of centuries of musical history. There are, and have always been, some magnificent female vocalists. In the true test of musical talent - the creation and performance of innovative music - they are notably absent.
BTW where is Melba? Where is Joan Sutherland? Jacquline Dupre? June Bronhill? Ella Fitzgerald? Billie Holiday?
Your narrow musical taste is denying you the experience of some seriously good female performers.
Wolfe:-
Coincidentally I’m reading Bernard Cornwall’s Arthur series right at the moment. You description of him as workmanlike is apt but I would say his historical knowledge is quite sound.
I’m wondering if you have come across any of Sara Douglas’ work?
Or Terry Pratchett?
August 27th, 2006 at 8:21 pm - IP Man-Hash: 76cebfba7c181
Female, please note how I specifically cited three writers that are superior (and remain superior to all you’ve mentioned — though Rice may, in time, challenge le Carre), and I outlined why they were superior. I suggested specific books, and their strengths and weaknesses.
You just came back with a laundry list. You can do more. That said, I welcome your thoughts on the topic.
@Female: you’re ignoring my main point that the men are better. And they are. Seriously. Can you honestly say Linda holds a candle to James Ellroy?
Yep, I truncated it. (I should have added ellipses though). I don’t feel the full quote adds anything at all. Do you? Can you explain how it does? The full quote is, if anything, worse. No, I don’t think she is remotely a good writer. I never truncate or bowlerdize quotes for dishonest reasons. Never. I truncated it because it said enough in what was going to be a long post.
With the utmost respect for your intellect (which I’ve generally spoken of positively on this site), I sincerely believe that if you think adding the final 4 words changes that into good writing, then you’ve a tin ear for language. Sorry. Tell me I’m wrong and explain why.
Very sorry to hear that. Doesn’t make her writing good (or bad). That stands on its own and makes it execrable. If she has better writing than that, and wrote that bad book while in the throes of being upset over her daughter, then let’s look at that better writing.
James Ellroy’s mother was a prostitute and was murdered in a dark alley when he was 10. Also a tragedy. While it may have formed his personality (darkly), and is horrific, it doesn’t make his writing good. Or bad.
Most good writers (and a lot of bad ones) have rather horrible things happen to them. Some think it stimulates creativity. Let’s leave that as speculation for another time.
@Female: I think you are probably correct on Anne Rice, and your segmentation of her writing is bang-on. That single paragraph alone redeems the rest of what you write. I don’t much like her, but she definitely has a style and power. Check out her cheesy (but beloved by women) erotica written as Anne Rampling. An ex-gf introduced me to those. Odd, but well-written.
@Female: Shelley, Plath, etc. (Yes I know you liked one and not the other). Be honest. These are all high second tier writers. Or low first-tier. In the canon of Shakespeare, Chaucer… in the golden thread (10 manpoints for who identifies that reference, even Female — no, Google will not help you materially) of English Literature, none of these women with the possible exception of Shelley, will stand as canonical in 2 centuries.
@Female: On musicians? Why mention this? It’s not relevant to the topic. We’re not discussing lyricists; if we were, gay men would own us all. Women are crap, and straight men are only marginally better. Cole Porter and his ilk rule.
To your list, though. Tori Amos is an exceptional woman. Lara St. John (you didn’t mention her) is also rather interesting. The rest of the musicians you mention (Sarah MacLachlan?) … please. Some lyrics that are interesting to a third year ‘feminism in song’ class do not make them good writers in the english canon. Seriously.
Amos has, if nothing else, an ear for language that is exquisitely tuned. I am not sure if she has a pen for it. Consider her introduction to “The Dreaming”, by Neil Gaiman. Would you seriously suggest this is for the ages?
Have you even read any of Amos’ prose work? I have. (Did you even know she’d written prose?)
Some of the women you mention are downright strange… did google run amok? Virginia Andrews?
Female, you are very welcome to post to this topic as you wish. If Dick doesn’t want you here, I’ll move it to my blog.
I think you’re probably right about Rice (and I don’t like her writing, but admire it if that makes sense).
But honestly, none of the women you’ve mentioned holds a candle to Ellroy or Bradbury or even le Carre. And you’ve presented no analysis of their writing to argue otherwise.
If you genuinely believe that poor astrology woman is actually a good writer, quote me some of her good writing.
But please, please… check out Ellroy, Kingsley Amis, Graham Greene, Michael Connelly even.
-wolfe
August 27th, 2006 at 8:31 pm - IP Man-Hash: 76cebfba7c181
I’ve a long response to Female which is presumably awaiting moderation. To address gwallan:
I agree with your analysis of Shelley+Fitzgerald et al.
Oh yes, Cornwell’s historical knowledge is excellent. And by workmanlike I do not mean to criticize the man. My writing is, at best, workmanlike, and shines only once in a rare while. Were I as good a writer (and as well accepted as he), I’d be happy indeed.
I simply believe there is a canon of literature — people that will be read in a thousand years, much as Shakespeare still is today.
I don’t think Cornwell’s part of it, though I certainly agree he’s a cut above Tom Clancy and five or six cuts above Danielle Steele.
He wrote the Sharpe series, if you didn’t know. Also very good.
Sara Douglas: No, I hadn’t. Incredibly epic stuff from the look of it (e.g. the Troy Game). Her Darkwitch Rising title makes me think of Susan Cooper’s “The Dark is Rising” series.
Terry Pratchett: of course. Good stuff, although Douglas Adams (RIP) remains my favorite author of that general type. I also think I like Neil Gaiman’s work (sometime Pratchett writing partner) better. But Pratchett has a wonderful fluid style that remains readable and funny, and possibly more accessible to non-native-English speakers (than, say Adams).
Let’s also add Madeleine L’Engle, one of the finest children’s book writers (especially one who incorporated mathematics) of the last century. If you’ve nieces or nephews, Female, she might be a great choice for reading.
-wolfe
August 28th, 2006 at 2:04 am - IP Man-Hash: b6dfbb16ea57a
@wolfe
Little bit of favouritism with Douglas - she’s a local. Like Tolkien she is a lecturer specialising in myth and legend and her work reflects this.
I’d read all Adams work before discovering Pratchett. I’ve come to prefer the latter perhaps because of the broader scope. His two Science of Discworld books are well worth a read. Each stands as a novel but he alternates chapters between a story line and some very astute treatises on the philosophy of science, history and the arts.
I didn’t see your use of “workmanlike” re Cornwall as a slight. I’d say that is quite an accurate positioning. I’m just a sucker for anything to do with the Arthur legends.
Actually I’ve been quite lazy for about twenty years now and restricted myself mainly to fantasy/sci fi. It’s been mainly Donaldson, Herbert, Heinlein and the like.
Just remembered another woman with some talent - Janny Wurts. Her ongoing Wars of Light and Shadow series is excellent.
Ignoring all of that, and possibly to my embarassment, my favourite book of all time is Puckoon by Spike Milligan.
August 28th, 2006 at 2:47 am - IP Man-Hash: 109bcf0dfd9d2
What kind of intrument is that, Female?
Concussion by any chance?
:) Good one. Not sure how he she died. Too lazy too google.
August 28th, 2006 at 3:48 am - IP Man-Hash: 109bcf0dfd9d2
Narrow? I don’t think so. My list includes House, Rock, Hip-Hop, Soul, Blues, Jazz, Pop, a dash of rap (not too much!!) Folk and electronic trance. I’d say that’s pretty broad. And I don’t even know what genre Bjork should go into!
As for Melba and Dame Joan….I don’t “do” musicals or opera. It all sounds the same and as if they are yelling. Yea, that’s right. I got game.
August 29th, 2006 at 4:31 pm - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
Just finished rereading Catherine Asaro’s Aurora in four Voices novelette.
First time round was quite a few years ago in junior high, if my memory serves me well, mistaken in my belief that it was a sequel to Asimov’s Robots, Foundation and Empire series, which I’d just gone through entirely from my dad’s collection and new, pristine books of which I sought, prolonging it beyond his demise.
At very first I even thought she was an author commissioned by Asimov’s publishing house or a fan passionately trying to continue the series from where he eventually left off, as homage of sorts.
Passion cannot entirely make due bereft of adequate talent. The action’s spacebourne and in the future though, so why pass it up?
Kinda mushy but a free, simple, relaxing read.
August 30th, 2006 at 2:42 pm - IP Man-Hash: 76cebfba7c181
Ah yes. Aurora. The Naked Sun. Olivaw.
Asaro’s work is shaky writing, but a good read. Looks like a woman trying to write for men… and succeeding to at least some degree.
Thank you, Sony. I may well buy this.
@Female: House, Rock, Hip-hop, Soul, Blues, Jazz, Pop, Rap, Folk, Trance.
OK. That’s about an 80 year span of music.
Out of 6000 years of human music.
So you beat 1%.
That makes you not “narrow”.
Come on.
Moreover, most of what you list is late 20th century pap.
It may be good pap, but it’s all one era, monocultured (American no less!) and most of it (all of it?) unlikely to stand the test of time.
At least learn the difference between medieval, baroque, and classical. Listen to the great Christian liturgies set to song. (Seriously!) Listen to Kol Nidrei. (Curiously, Jews seem surprisingly weak at liturgical music. Probably because there were no sponsors).
Listen to Johnny Cash and understand why he was a giant of country, even if you view country as crap. ESPECIALLY if you view country as crap.
Even this: Listen to Tristan Fry and Sky’s late 70’s rock takes on classical music. Admire John Williams’ (no not the composer) guitar take on ‘Tocatta’.
And play an instrument. It’s not too late. I play the piano, the recorder (alto) and the guitar (acoustic; 6 string). I play all of them dreadfully badly, but the friends I play with don’t mind.
A woman who can appreciate Dali (I can’t), is capable of more than a few scattered late 20th century bits of cultural musical detritus.
LISTEN. Learn. I’ll post a list on my blog (remind me if I don’t) of what’s good to listen to to help form your tastes. Much of it is free or cheap.
-wolfe
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:47 pm - IP Man-Hash: 16398f45bb202
There is one (and only one) amazing female writer:
Ayn Rand
but you’re going to have a bell-shaped curve, and she was the one woman who had, incredibly, the brain of a man.
January 4th, 2007 at 2:01 am - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
The mind of a man, aye. But that of an imbecilic, ignorant or confoundedly evil one at that.
- Nightwish - The Wayfarer
February 20th, 2007 at 2:37 pm - IP Man-Hash: 725f3f1134a94
Women are shit musicians,
I have only ever met or even seen one or two girls who can actually shred a guitar even half as good as most male guitarists.
Men are better than women at music! For every instrument there is a woman who can play it better than any other woman, and about 2 to 2,000 more men who can play that instrument better than she can.
x
February 20th, 2007 at 2:44 pm - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
With the odd exception or two. Some only ever play their vocal cords. But to the envy of any manmade instrument.
Case in point:
- Alannah Myles - song instead of a kiss
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 am - IP Man-Hash: 5913ea751a094
As a singer, pianist and drummer myself, I would say that the gigging scene is almost entirely male-dominated. I’ve only ever met one other female drummer and she sucked. I’ll be honest and say that I don’t think I suck, but I certainly can’t keep up with some of the better male drummers out there. I think many women lack the passion and commitment that keeps men driven to become really good at their chosen instrument. Maybe women really don’t make such good composers as men. I think when we have the commitment however, we can make very good performers - especially when it comes to vocal performances. Hildegard of Bingen, Billie Holliday, Nina Simone, Ella Fitzgerald, Maria Callas and Lisa Gerrard are a few notable women that I can think of in music. I can probably name far more men.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 am - IP Man-Hash: adc0a2c9dafc9
Well it is true that women never have the same commitment as men in anything. Just take look at marraiges, women are wrecking homes and lives like a tornado from hell.
March 2nd, 2007 at 7:05 pm - IP Man-Hash: 73f9de907ea55
Billy is hitting the nail in the coffin, women are homewreckers take a look at Cynthia A. Sommers for example.
March 10th, 2007 at 7:51 am - IP Man-Hash: ab0c877405677
I do believe that men are generally better than women at music. The one woman I know who is an evolutionary psychologist agrees from the scientific viewpoint that it COULD be a kind of “songbird” phenomenon (which might explain why some male artists start to suck once they’ve passed prime reproductive years). I know that when I started playing, I was simply GOOD at it. My sisters were only mediocre, though we are all part of the same musical family. …of course, this is all just heresay, but I like to think people are intelligent enough these days to accept that there must be some differences in genders that go beyond what we are forced to recognize by overt appearance.
What are women better at? Multi-tasking. This MIGHT be due to the proportionately large corpus collosum in women (the part of the brain most known for communication between brain hemispheres). I hate multi-tasking, and I know no man who is naturally good at it (we learn, instead). But also let me say this about the scientific literature: individual differences are much more statistically significant than gender differences. Therefore, all this discussion may largely be a waste of our time. For instance, women are generally better than men at language? Perhaps. But I have only one person female friend (an internationally recognized poet, at that) who is a better writer than I. At the same time, some of those women who can’t write or speak crap as far as I’m concerned are better at math than me. And these days, those of us who study the human brain are not so sure why the current gender difference there exists. It’s likely due at least in part to bias in various forms.
All that being said, women suck. I’m just kind of pissed that they get to pick and choose while we are expected to do some kind of mating dance in the street in front of their houses so they can just PICK who they like. They really don’t know what it is to be lonely, I’ve learned. Their stories are PITIFULLY SHALLOW in that regard. But whatever. Hmmmm mating dance in the street…I haven’t actually tried that yet. Hot girl gets home at 5. We’ll see.
March 10th, 2007 at 10:32 am - IP Man-Hash: 980cc8a8ac1a7
The few women who are good at music are so only because of rare endocrinological imbalances that see them endowed with excess testosterone.
March 10th, 2007 at 10:43 am - IP Man-Hash: e36376410e1aa
Good point.
-Dick
June 28th, 2007 at 12:05 am - IP Man-Hash: 1de71e819d502
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_composers