Please don’t get me wrong, as you have pointed out, this site is humourous and it does start some good amount of debate flowing, that much I can agree with.

I can also understand where this attitude arises, I do respect the fact that there is a HECK OF A LOT of male-bashing - yet I DEPLORE that on feminists sites as I vehemently deplore female-bashing here - I am not saying there is no room for it in the spectrum of debate, but it does concern me and unsettle me a great deal. This site does trouble me, not just because I am a woman but because I care about the issue, and because it worries me that the backlash would only create an even wider gap between men and women, that would be unbearable I think.

I will be honest with you guys, I had no idea how it felt to be mocked on the basis of gender until I came here - it does make a person question themselves: am I really that bad because I am X gender? Do I really act as badly as they portray me? It also compels you to try and speak out to disassociate yourselves from how your own gender is being depicted, leaving yourself in a kind of no-man’s-land of the gender wars.

I am supposing were I a man I would feel much the same way as I read the numbers upon numbers of feminist sites out there, or as I listen to the numbers of urban myths about the male gender that are believed by thousands of women, and even by some men.

Yet, I will still stand by my statement that this site is in the end destructive, despite some of the positives that arise. I say this because it concerns me that this site will send out a message to young men that they should never ever trust a woman ever. It’s not that I disagree with the message completely (because I do think men will do well to be a bit more wary towards women at times) but I think painting women in such a poor light will only create a barrier of fear and distrust which will worsen the relationship between the sexes.

I am also concerned that it gives men an impression that because men are ‘better than women’ they should treat women as an inferior. I know, Wolfe (as I have read quite a lot of your comments on here), that you will say it is not about superiority vs. inferiority, but a statement of quality. A mature person with a developed mind would understand that, but the more simple would look at ‘better’ and think - INFERIOR - and therefore consider it right to treat women badly or in a way that disrespects them, which I do not believe to be fair or even useful in the long run.

I know relations are bad between the sexes, but to paint women as such ogres will only encourage men to withdraw and this is not facing the issue and exacerbating the problem on top of that. I understand you are sick to the back teeth of what you have thrown at you, please don’t think I have ignored that, your reactions are justified.

That said, there are women listening out there, they may be few and far between, but they are there and they are growing in numbers. I for one am SICK TO DEATH of gender wars and I know there are like minded people out there I guess I am just saying as a woman in ‘no-gender-land’ between the two trenches of the sex-wars, don’t give up on us yet, the ladies will come around to understand eventually - maybe in the big picture, sites like this contribute to them seeing some hometruths - I don’t know. Perhaps I am too much of an optimist and I see too much good in others?

Luka try pretending you’re a man for a few minutes.
Google feminism and go act look through the eyes of a man and talk about the destructive sites that women post on. See how friendly they are to you. There are thousands of sites insulting males and only a few hundred of men speaking poorly about women. They don’t have to be feminist related even to see this women rules mentality, girls are superior etc..

Women demand that we men respect them but they have none for us. There are hateful, arrogant, narcistic females everywhere we go in real life. Almost every site where women post is haven of male bashing and disrespect. Then a few come here and get flamed over the title and go
into fits as if we should care? They are mostly reaping what they have sewn. IMO.

Men didn’t start any war between the sexes and for years we overlooked it. But men are tired of being shot at or verablly assauted while continuing to pamper the sick sisterhood. Yes women have brought this behaviour on themselves. And I can only see it becoming worse, because women will never see themselves as wrong.
They will continue blaming men for every little problem they have.

I’ve lost the concern for women that I onced had.

Luka said:

My criticism of this site is that it is destructive. This site focuses too heavily upon women’s faults whilst ignoring men’s faults completely. MABTW doesn’t focus enough on what men can be proud of, nor does it take into account the achievements of women at all.

[emphasis mine]
I don’t agree that it is destructive. Obviously that’s a matter of opinion. My argument would be that a) it’s humor; b) there’s a lot of thoughtful posting from both men and women going on.

That said, it is a weak forum for a realistic debate on gender issues between both men and women. Women are at a disadvantage here because they are so collectively mocked. Women also tend to be individually mocked unless they come in extraordinarily politely. (I think you are the second most polite woman to post here and I think you’ve been somewhat personally mocked here and there; you’d know better than I). I doubt it will continue as you’ve been consistently polite and rational.

If you look at the forums, you’ll see that there in fact is a lot of positive talk (as well as a reflection of more of the same that you object to on this part of the site). We discuss politics, history, cars, scotch, martial arts… whatever strikes our fancy.

Now, as to focusing on men’s faults? Oh please. Society is filled with a lot of that crap, both true and false. If you find my speech is becoming less elegant, less eloquent, there’s a reason. I’m bloody sick and tired of all the garbage spewed about men’s faults over the years. I’ll put up with it in a corporate setting and keep a pleasant smile on my face as I am forced to hire some dizzy idiot feminist to come in and lecture my people on “gender equity and sexual harrassment” for the umpteenth time, but I’m not going to seek out a site that pumps out more of this rot.

Yes, men have faults, and you’ll find we do examine them here and there on the site, but that’s not the site’s purpose, nor is it what we seek. Note that this doesn’t mean we seek glorification of man; simply a rational refuge from a feminized society’s nonsense that is so extensive it drugs young boys for being masculine. Sick.

As for women’s virtues, I’ve certainly cited them. I admire Margaret Thatcher. I defended Hedy Lamarr the other day in our forums. A good woman makes a man better. A good man makes a woman better. On this I’ve little doubt.

Your points are generally fair (though I vehemently disagree with your conclusion that the site is destructive), but they ignore the nature of society as a whole, and the purpose of this site (as well as the humor).

There certainly is a place for a site that involves fair and rational discussion between men and women, and involves a fair and rational assessment of both genders. This site is not that.
-wolfe

Oldone: Great response. I concur wholeheartedly.

Luka,

A largely fair post. Indeed, were I a woman, I am not sure I would have the patience you do to continue reading this site. A few thoughts. Please consider this response a discussion, not a debate.

Exception that proves the rule: Good for you. Yes, I too was similarly baffled back in my teens. The cliche didn’t seem to make any sense.

I too love debate and discussion. I’m not a big fan of arguing. From your posts, I can see you perceive the difference.

[quote]I honestly don’t know if men are better than women, but I do know that the idea makes me uncomfortable.[/quote]
This is for a variety of reasons as you suggest. Political correctness, yes. A fear of what can happen when mass movements suggest one group of people is better than another. We saw this in Germany, Russia, and Japan. We see it today in a conflict between Islamists (not Islam; Islamists) and the rest of the world. Weak-minded people can indeed take up such a banner and pursue it to dark ends. (Look at Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, and eugenics for a quasi-feminist version of this.)

Personally, I enjoy Dick’s writing because it is so shocking and jarring. His stance is indeed a fair degree towards one extreme, yet not utterly without nuance and subtlety.

“One in three women is [sic] illiterate”. The sic is not necessarily correct, though well spotted. If Dick is using one in three as a fraction, you are correct. If he is using it as a [small] representative sample, his usage is correct.

Any message that tries to sing the merits of one group of people whilst simultaneously holding the [sic; silly typo] another beneath contempt is not a positive one but a destructive and dangerous one.

I do not believe that the overall message of this site is one of holding women beneath contempt. Certainly I do not do so, and in many of my posts I am at pains to do the reverse.

The category that this blog is filed under, in google, as “humor” is revealing.

incompetant

An amusing word to misspell. Sadly, I too often misspell that word in exactly that way. Perhaps that’s why it leapt out at me.
End Part 1
-wolfe

Luka,

A well written and thought out post to be assured and I can see your point quite clearly. However, and I mean you no insult when I say this, you perhaps approach this site with expectations never intended. I agree it would be nice to “build men up rather than tear women down.” Before anyone can take such a heated topic of debate into a cognitive thought and then in to positive writing, one must first blow of a little steam.

I come to this site to release some of the pent-up frustration that has accumulated over the years from having, as you say, political correctness forced upon me whether my choice or not and from the blatant, overt attacks constantly suffered by men for simply being Men. I come here for the blunt, if sometimes exaggerated points Dick brings to light in his articles; for the eloquent, thought inspiring spin that Wolfe adds and for the undaunted, unwavering strength expressed by ChristianJ. “Strength And Honor My friend.”

When viewed in this light, MABTW provides an invaluable, important service and a much needed reprieve from feminism.

Oldone

wolfe said:

Luka, you’ve a couple of excellent posts here. Most of what you write is fair, rational and sensible. You’re sure you’re not a man? (Sorry, couldn’t resist). I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. They tend to be polite, grammatical, and logical. (You even eschew the “wall of text”).

Thank you Wolfe, I take that question as a compliment, considering what site we are on. Last time I checked I am very much a woman.

Look up the word “prove” in the dictionary if you don’t already know the multiple meanings. By “prove” I mean simply “test”, with, admittedly, some implication of demonstration and verification, but with the emphasis on testing. (as in “the exception that proves the rule”. No that does not mean the exception that VERIFIES the rule, it means the exception that TESTS the rule.)

I discovered this fact the other day, actually - I often questioned the meaning of ‘the exception that proves the rule’ because it didn’t make sense to me. Since understanding that statement better by reading through a site dedicated to the art of debate (debating is a subject I love, by the way) I discovered that it is a very accurate saying.

But I digress, back on topic. You mentioned that by saying men are better than women you do not belittle women or glorify men, I will address this matter below:-

Now: to your comment in this thread. No man can claim to be better than any given woman because of his kinship with Leonardo da Vinci and hers with Wendy, of Peter Pan.

But there is overwhelming evidence to suggest there are serious biological differences between men and women; that men are, in many respects “better” (and in some respects “worse”) than women. Certainly, however, if you want a society to progress, it is reasonably obvious that “men are better than women”.

I honestly don’t know if men are better than women, but I do know that the idea makes me uncomfortable. Whether or not this discomfort is due to that political correctness jab that I have been injected with from a very young age, I couldn’t say. Yet, what I would say is this: this website does very little to prevent men from glorifying themselves and everything possible to belittle women.

Just commenting on the ways that men are better than women alone does not mean that you glorify men or think women are inferior - that I can agree with. Yet, look at the above idea and compare ’simply commenting on the ways in which men are better’ with a few of the headlines that jump out from the homepage of MABTW. Just to list a few: Every Woman is a Cheating Whore, Women would vote for Hitler, Women suck at computers, One in Three Women is [sic] illiterate, and the list goes on.

Where are the headlines that say ‘men are great partners’, ‘men make amazing voters’, ‘men are talented with computers’, and so on? I am not saying that we should ‘play nice’ here or anything of the sort. What I am suggesting is a more positive way of giving men back their sense of confidence and pride and doing so without concentrating only on slandering and belittling women.

Any message that tries to sing the merits of one group of people whilst simultaneously holding the another beneath contempt is not a positive one but a destructive and dangerous one.

This is aptly demonstrated in Dick’s articles that claim women are whores, incubators, fascists, useless, and incompetant and so on whilst claiming that men are always honest and upright in the same articles. This technique is the same as those employed by tyrants and bullies, not by those who care about the truth, or are interested in resolving the issues to move the human race forward.

I will still stand by my statement above even if what Dick is saying can be proved true. It is fair to say that Dick’s articles do have an element of truth in them, and of course he is entitled to express his opinions on this own site, it is not my intention to be rude towards him in this respect, and apologies in advance if I come across in this way.

I am all for an honest and frank appraisal of women’s actions and their numerous faults but it only makes sense to point them out if you are constructive with it. In other words, rather than tear women down, why not suggest constructive ways in which women can improve? Why not concentrate on building men up, not tearing women down? In this way MABTW can become part of the solution not part of the problem for misunderstanding and distrust between the sexes.

My criticism of this site is that it is destructive. This site focuses too heavily upon women’s faults whilst ignoring men’s faults completely. MABTW doesn’t focus enough on what men can be proud of, nor does it take into account the achievements of women at all.

Does this permit a man to rest on his laurels and laugh at women? No. Quite the contrary. He has all the more to live up to, leaving exceptionalism aside as an argument.

Well, perhaps you can start being better than women by not bringing yourselves down this finger-pointing and name-calling that the feminists have mastered to an art. Give feminism a real slap in the ass by being a bit more mature than calling all women whores, incubators, illiterate, useless, and immoral? I say this because I think you can do better, rather than to criticise you.

Anyway, sorry about the long post and thank you for the kind words, Wolfe.

Thanks,

Luka

WELL SAID BILLY……I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

Luka your quite reasonable,debatable and mature.UNLIKE THE THE FEMINIST POSTS POSTED BY OTHER FEMALES.But most women are not like you.The women you quoted in your post hardly exist today as stated by Billy.Women are becoming more materialistic and superficial in their attitudes.WHAT WE NEED TODAY ARE REVOLUTIONARY CHANGES IN OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND A RESPONSIBLE MEDIA.

luka that was a fair response but I have to say that those women you referred to as supporting and doing what’s best for the family have mostly become history. Todays women are much less likely to have such qualities. The average young female today will go through 3 and 4 marriages and even more..
The entitlement issues and goddess attitudes are disgusting.
Most women can’t be trusted.

Luka, you’ve a couple of excellent posts here. Most of what you write is fair, rational and sensible. You’re sure you’re not a man? (Sorry, couldn’t resist). I’ve enjoyed reading your posts. They tend to be polite, grammatical, and logical. (You even eschew the “wall of text”).

I am probably the poster you’ve noted who’s raised the issue of exceptional men vs. exceptional women. (or men as occupying the “most brilliant but also the most hideous places in world history”)

I raise exceptional men — and we could put the barrier at the top billionth but I would suggest the top 1% (I suspect the distributions between the two are not dissimilar) — not to glorify men or belittle women, but to “prove” the arguments of this site.

STOP!

Look up the word “prove” in the dictionary if you don’t already know the multiple meanings. By “prove” I mean simply “test”, with, admittedly, some implication of demonstration and verification, but with the emphasis on testing. (as in “the exception that proves the rule”. No that does not mean the exception that VERIFIES the rule, it means the exception that TESTS the rule.)

I’ve approached this website as a skeptic, but I have become largely convinced of the merits of Dick’s arguments.

Now: to your comment in this thread. No man can claim to be better than any given woman because of his kinship with Leonardo da Vinci and hers with Wendy, of Peter Pan.

But there is overwhelming evidence to suggest there are serious biological differences between men and women; that men are, in many respects “better” (and in some respects “worse”) than women. Certainly, however, if you want a society to progress, it is reasonably obvious that “men are better than women”.

Does this permit a man to rest on his laurels and laugh at women? No. Quite the contrary. He has all the more to live up to, leaving exceptionalism aside as an argument.

Best,
-wolfe

Billy says:

Rosa was no big deal she was just someone who was stubborn enough not to be pushed any longer. Marie Curie did do things that were good.
But the Herstory is a lie. Her husband and another Frenchman did most of the discoveries that the women’s bowl movement gave her credit for.

History or”herstory” has lied about Albert Einstein. . . his wife is the one who did at least half of the work on the theory of relativity and used to correct his mistakes on his math problems. There are articles on this subject. Here are the links:

http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/episteme/ep4/ep4maric.htm
http://www.msu.edu/~mccaske1/writing/eresp.htm

Don’t be afraid to post this, Dick.

We are making huge sweeping generalisations here about men and women and this is dangerous because we ignore the reality in exchange for half truths and black and white thinking.

Sure, it is great to go to any site promoting the greatness of one gender and be told that you are the most noble creature the world has ever set eyes upon (I am talking both men and women sites here) but so few people try to see the reality rather than half truths.

That men have done many amazing and incredible things is not a lie, I admire this; your ability to invent, to entertain, to pioneer and achieve the seemingly impossible. Yet, men have also done some cruel, malicious and stupid things too.

The average-joe in the streets has rarely done anything worthy or infamous enough to deserve a note in the pages of world history - yet, do we look upon such men as leeches, parasites or worthless?

No, most of these men either bravely faced fought battles or went to work everyday in dangerous and back-breaking environments to fed themselves and their familes that they loved and protected. None of these men got public recognition for the noble deeds and hardships they endured in their lifetime. There are a number of men who have lived noble lives who die unknown to the world - but there were also other men who got drunk, never worked, got involved in crime and beat their wives and their children.

Likewise, there are a great number of women through history who bring up children (men and women) to be achievers and to make a good contribution to the world, they work hard to bring up their sons and daughters which is no easy job. Many women have sacrificed much for their families, supported their husbands (if they have one) and supported their children (if they don’t have a husband)…some of this is not written in history books, but successfully raising a new generation is vital and important.

On the other hand, there are women who abuse their husbands and children, who are money grabbers, that are incompetent, or drunk (or both!) and who cheat on their men.

To be honest I don’t think much of some women either in this day and age, I don’t think feminist progaganda really helps many either - often women are very high maintenance as a result for they expect men to be as they want them to be, rather than how they are.

That said, elsewhere I have read on this site a comment by one poster who said that men occupy the most brilliant but also the most hideous places in world history. Men are many, many things, but they are by no means without fault but they also do not deserve the slander that they are being given at present either.

I agree with the idea that men should be given a lot more respect and credit than which they are being given by the feminazis and the media, in general.

Rosa was no big deal she was just someone who was stubborn enough not to be pushed any longer. Marie Curie did do things that were good.
But the Herstory is a lie. Her husband and another Frenchman did most of the discoveries that the women’s bowl movement gave her credit for.

There are many brilliant males who are not considered a genius, they entertain and create in way females don’t. Most women are similar to a parasite. Sucking the life out of the host until they find a more suitable host. What about Ellen MacArthur? she wasn’t the first nor second… so no big deal. She would have never done so without man’s knowledge or help.

The fact is women insult men daily, everywhere.
They are such ingrates while men have done everything to appease women and make their lives better. Women are wrecking homes and lives everywhere they go. Great achievement from our women.

Seriously most women suck as people. I am not a sexist, just speaking the truth. Show me a good woman and I will show a very rare creature.

I don’t think many everyday women really compare themselves to the great and exceptional men - there is simply no comparison that can be made. Then again, I don’t think many men would try to measure themselves against these people either.

If I did compare myself I would have nothing but admiration and pride for the men and women who have achieved what they have for the benefit of humanity. I would not be jealous but pleased for them.

There are many great men in history - Martin Luther King Jr. Gandhi, Aristotle, Leonardo Da Vinci, Issac Newton, Einstein and so on. Yet, the average men do not even reach their standards - when we mention great men most of them are in the realm of genius - these are exceptional and unusual men, savants and so on. These are deviations from the norm.

Apparently there are only 25 or so savants in the world today - so obviously we are talking a tiny percentage of a population when we talk about amazing people who do amazing deeds.

What would be a mistake would be to admire these people for their gender, rather than for them being an exceptional individual that they are or for the actual achievements they have accomplished.

Can you claim to be as great as Leonardo de Vinci because you share his gender? No. I cannot claim that I am better than you because Rosa Parks was a woman and (wow) so am I! Don’t you see that boasting how many more exceptional men there are compared to exceptional woman is foolish? We are not even talking about a significant percentage of people. We are comparing a group of people that don’t even make up 5% of the world population.

There have also been exceptional women in history - What about Ellen MacArthur who sailed around the world? Or Rosa Parks who helped change civil rights? Or Marie Curie?

These people are exceptional people, very few of us can even measure up to their brilliance and vision. If you want to set their standards as a bar of aachievement then a huge percentage of peope will fall way below it. That includes a huge percentage of men too.

Luka said:

Why are women jealous of men?

There’s literally too many reasons to list why. I would be jealous too if I was a woman - glad I’m not.

I saw a David Blane program a few days ago, he performed 2 stunts that I found mighty impressive.

The first was holding his breath (while chained up) in a water tank for 7 minutes, which is a very good time considering his build is not the best suited for the task.

The second feat was watching him tie up his own shoelaces, simply by flicking his foot for about 10 seconds until a knot was formed. He even taught a few street kids how to do so just to prove it wasn’t bullshit.

Whatever their reasons, Women don’t do anything amazingly impressive like that, it’s just not in their blood or something.

Being a good magician requires practise, patience, discipline and sacrifice -most women have no fucking idea what those words mean.

Exactly why there are no famous female magicians. Even if they do exist, no one has heard of them nor gives a shit.

- Yet another reason why men are better than women.

Jack. Care to read my post again?

I did not say that men don’t have compassion for women - my post was talking about pity. I was saying that pity is not a part of love, and that it should not be and whoever said that pity is a part of love is a high-class idiot.

I know men have compassion for women - I just would like to know why you jumped on my post putting words into my mouth rather than actually reading what I said?

Ofcourse we have compassion for women,LUKA? Otherwise how do you think you read wonderfull poety and romantic novels in liteature.Even the the clothes that you wear is designed by men.WITHOUT US YOU WOULDNT HAVE KNOWN WHAT INTERNET IS ALL ABOUT?

Which women’s site did you read this on Billy? Only those who have compassion or pity can love someone? What a load of horseshit? Loving someone has nothing to do with pity. Who wants someone’s pity? Whoever said this is an idiot…

Why are women jealous of men?

I would not accept the love of any man who pitied me any more than I could love a man that I pitied. What a horrible way of looking on love!

-Proof that lesbian relationships don’t work.

lol
If this were a man he would know that no female really deserves a man.
Good try James aka Pixie you stinky little girl.

Women are lucky men have compassion for these dumb creatures.
And compassion is something that they lack.

I read from a womans site that they see love as the same thing as compassion and that only those who have compassion or pity can love someone. A shrink must have told her this.
That would almost make some sense because women are jealous of men, lack compassion and don’t really love anyone but themselves who they pity.
And if men didn’t have pity on their stupid ass we couldn’t put up with them. It’s easy to pity a woman for her lack of brains.

James said:

I cheated on my girlfriend.
She’s remained 100% loyal to me. She’s fuckin deadly,i don’t even deserve her.

-Proof that lesbian relationships don’t work.