I’ll refer you once more to my statement which no-one has logically proven incorrect:

No, I do believe that Alex successfully proved your statement invalid when she pointed out that if it wasn’t for the egg, then the sperm would not be able to give life and would simply be washed away. Hence, the importance of both. One cannot give life without the other.
My problem with your statement

My father gave me life, my mother gestated me.

is thus on a semantic level. Your words appear to priortise your father’s role. Your father “gave”, and your mother just “gestated”. The very way you have phrased your sentence values your father’s role more than your mother’s which is ridiculous based not only on Alex’s point, but also on my previous point that gestation is also necessary for the life to be and happen.

and ask you how you can render the contribution of men as being insignificant.

I could ask you the same about women and gestation but I won’t bother as you are smart enough to know that everything I have said about is right and if you argue against it then I simply won’t believe that you really believe what you are saying, it would just be an exercise in win the point at all costs and I won’t indulge you in playing that game.

As for your pointing out the fact maternity leave does not go on indefinitely, well, I must thank you once again for pointing out societal recognition that “bearing” children, regardless of its importance, is only a short term event.

Mmm, but raising them isn’t. And most women don’t hand their children over to welfare agencies for other people to raise.

In any case, what you are now saying is that having children is no great contribution to society. Ridiculous.

Douche your post makes no sense. Women can both have children and contribute to society through working. You need to elaborate on that. It can be taken two ways. Either a woman while pregnant can still continue to work. Or only a woman is fully capable of rearing a child while working.

Either way it was dumb as fuck. Men can’t get pregnant. So you didn’t exactly make a scientific breakthrough their. As far as men rearing children. I can assure you men can raise children (better) while working far more hours. Next time elaborate tranny.

@Michelle:
Since we’re back to the “women can have babies” card again, I’ll refer you once more to my statement which no-one has logically proven incorrect:
My father gave me life, my mother gestated me.
and ask you how you can render the contribution of men as being insignificant.
Women have far less pressure upon them to make society a better place, therefore can afford to spend more time involved with “bearing” a child. Considering that men contribute to the woman’s well-being whilst she is pregnant, their involvement is also significant in the process. One person carrying a bucket of water with two hands whilst another clears obstructions from their path, feeds them, protects them, and holds them steady equals a double effort to the same end goal.

While you may try to glib past the the enormous value of men’s contribution to the growth of society when you say “It doesn’t matter if the work that the woman is doing isn’t finding a cure for cancer, nor does it matter whether the employment is full, part-time or casual. The point and argument is that the woman can do both and men can’t.” but I state that amount and quality of contribution to greater society is a very important factor.
To refer it my my above statement, if there is no village (nor hope of there ever being one) to contribute that bucket to, then what value is there in carrying it at all? Also, how much more vastly difficult would it be to carry that bucket without someone in support? Inversely, men are more than capable of contributing to society without a support network clearing a path for them. They just do so better in many instances when they have such luxury.

As for your pointing out the fact maternity leave does not go on indefinitely, well, I must thank you once again for pointing out societal recognition that “bearing” children, regardless of its importance, is only a short term event. So considering the amount of time involved, this leaves a great deal of time for contribution to society beyond watching Oprah and reading Cosmo.

In regard to your mentioning the cost of raising a child, well, I have one simple point to make. If you cannot afford to breed, then the responsible thing is to just not do it. Society should not have to support the burden of peoples frivolous child bearing. The world is overpopulated with humans and cannot support our demand for natural resources as it is.

Being a parent is not a right, it is a responsibility.

wow-female, you need to realise that just because these men say “ALL” they do not not know you, nor every woman in the world and that you may be very, very different to the type of women they describe. They may act like it but they certainly are not Know-It-Alls so why you would even think that their words about what women are like were more valid than your own knowledge regarding what you may be like yourself is because you have yet to develop a thick skin. You should work on that. Don’t cop out, take more hits and you will develop Teflon. It’s worth it.

Doubt LOL, I am not a girly-girl, or a whore or a bitch or a cunt or whatever other slur you want to put on me. I am a human who is not even derogatorily insulting you people and you simply are unable to argue rationally or logically against me, so you are resorting to name-calling. This is why I ignore your posts, you are too immature to have any kind of normal conversation with.

Zardoz said:

Also, if you want to speak of bearing children in terms of working and gestating at the same time, they may well do in places like Afghanistan, where they know that everyone has to work for the family to survive, but our nice cushy western culture gives paid maternity leave and welfare. Very few fit the image you’re trying to present.

Well I wasn’t aware that in our nice cushy western culture that paid maternity leave was stretched out indefinately, nor that welfare actually covered the cost of living..how you can even make the latter statement without referencing it to any particular country is quite amazing. I guess we’ll just have to believe that you did a comparative analysis on social services and the cost of raising X number of children in any given city in all of the western nations.

Just so you aware I wasn’t trying to present any “image”. I was stating a fact and that fact is that women can both have children AND contribute to society through working. And men can’t. It doesn’t matter if the work that the woman is doing isn’t finding a cure for cancer, nor does it matter whether the employment is full, part-time or casual. The point and argument is that the woman can do both and men can’t. Thus purely based on capacity to contribute, women > men. I believe this argument is still open. Takers?

Its true, if you go back and look, most of the guys here will be very explanatory and respectful to whoever posts here until they break the seal with insults or trolling.

Men are trying to understand why women are acting like children and whats even hard to understand is why they are getting away with it.

Men are held to a higher standard and everyone knows it.

@ wow-female: We are only assholes to the bitches and whores who fully deserve to be treated as such.

Wow-female I understand your point. But when it comes to an intelligent debate, I don’t think most guys here just jump all over a woman. The ones that do get ripped started it themselves.

You ought to consider joining the forums Wow-Female, you might find it more enlightening as to how we really think and feel, and your input would be most welcome.

@Zardoz, I know that when we are verbally ( or computerally ??? Ha! ) attacked, we tend to lash out……… but thats all I have seen on here lately, attacks. Thank you though, your kind words mean more than you know……….

And obvioulsy we shouldnt and CANT do parenthood without them!

Dads ROCK!

chris said: Don’t worry about it. You know we love you.

Do please try to keep this in mind wow-female, for you we have only respect and kind consideration.

@zardoz, thank-you for “getting me”. It is still somewhat depressing though, to know that my gender has screwed up so bad that most women are labled as worthless by so many men.

I dare to say (as so many others have) that there ARE women out there that will love, honor, and respect you, not because we have to, but because you deserve it…..

@wow-female:
At no time have I tried to demean the effort of gestation, nor the pride you should have in being a lady, and a mother. I’m saddened that you feel I have done so, but I fear that is very likely a result of the attacks on my logical assertion which have attempted to trash it through emotively and falsely placing women in a demeaning context. My statement has no intent whatsoever of disputing your contribution to your children’s well being, but to restore a sense of worth to fatherhood which has been lost in modern times.
You of all people have a very healthy family life and your children profit from that far beyond the average modern child. You also, unlike most women, recognise the value of your husband as your spouse and your children’s father. Please don’t let the negativity which has been thrust upon my arguments by others cause you to believe their fallacious assertions to be the truth behind what I say.

@mike5150 - I dont mean for you to butt kiss any insulting femanazi, but if you insult her as she does you, she will NEVER understand………and isnt the the point of all of this? to change things?

@chris - even that small compliment is much appreciated….

Maybe if those women didn’t immediately come here and start running their mouths, they wouldn’t be insulted. A woman comes here and insults a man. The answer, try to play nice and explain things to her. Once again fucked up female logic.

To all of you: Women of heart and of substance will be offended by your methods of explaining this website. And although I agree with most all of dicks arguements, your words are sometimes hurtful to the women that are repectful of men, of their roles, and of their obvious value…. I think a lot of women that initially react negatively to this website need not insults, but rational, kind explanation in order to “get it”……….and if they dont get it, maybe just being ignored would be enough……. help…

@Alex:
To say the egg gives life to the sperm is to say the pre-sculpted marble gives life to the sculptor. While any sentient involvement may be irrelevant in that analogy, the effective relationship remains the same. The sperm is that which triggers independent life in the ovum.
In regard to what you perceive as hostility over reproduction, well, this stems from the fact so many women whom post here play the “women have babies, we give life, bow before your mother” card as argument repeatedly. Its like a war drum in its consistency. As a result it appears to everyone here that this displays a total disregard for the fathers input.
My father gave me life, my mother gestated me, is thus my statement to reply to this argument women constantly put forth, and remind everyone of the important of men in the equation. It does not to my mind disrespect the effort of gestation, it simply places things in a perspective few people bother to consider. There’s nothing hostile in or about my assertion, though it has so far been met with varying levels of hostile attack.